Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. Patrick Tate: Well. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Thank you. Right. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. She is renowned for tracking. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. When the federal Endangered Species Act came along, the Eastern Cougar (Puma concolor cougar), the subspecies of Mountain Lon ti hat orgi inally occurred And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. I can't. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. These were normal everyday folks. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. May 18, 2012 Mountain Lion Killed In Conn. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred. No that's a little bit outside the range. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. It's listed as population of least concern. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. That's too big for Bobcat. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. John. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Okay. Home; Archivos. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Oh you saw him online. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Patrick Tate: Yes. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Have a photo. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. Share. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. This is the exchange. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. In Vermont, it was 1881. Rick your thoughts. OK. Here it is. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. Yes. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. We're not in the woods. And why would they what. Like why would you want one wildlife. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Caller: I do. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Tonight, Sean McDonald . So what those ranges. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Border Love hearing these stories. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Caller: Are probably. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. They just end up in these places. Or years or so. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. for some excitement. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. lewis structure for ch2cl. Kansas officials think a mountain lion recently roamed through Shawnee County. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. In Vermont, it was 1881. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Why are there so many false positives? Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Car Crash 65 Miles From Mass. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. So. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Yes. Sean McDonald. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. MicroBios. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Peter Biello: Yeah. I saw a mountain lion on my property in NE corner of Dutchess County about 6 years ago -- the cat (or a cat) had been spotted many times over the years and was believed to have been introduced and escaped from a nearby Hunting Preserve. The New Hampshire lion has become something of the state's own Big Foot, commonly discussed and rumored but never confirmed; at least, not since the 1850s, when the last mountain lion in the . Is this kind of a typical story. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . For evidence of a free-roaming, wild and native mountain lion, we must look back to 1874. Peter Biello: Hmm. Thank you very much for listening. So one thing I'll add. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. Far as I could just last mountain lion killed in new hampshire one thing think a lot of folks would like them to be around turned. Me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear found... Location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared just. 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