Contest void where prohibited by law. Well let me tell you what I have found, the depth that you seat the wad cutter is very important. I really appreciate your comments and Im glad youre enjoying the site. Berrys .38 cal. thanks. Riley, Im not well versed on the .32 Longs. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. The wide square bottom grease groove holds ample lubricant. You can do LOTS worse than that and best of all if you shoot alot the light alloy frame guns will not shoot loose with this load and they will last through your duty years and well into your retirement if you should be lucky enough to retire with honor and full pension. The taper may be straight or curved. And then there was this fella once, I believe his name was Goliath who underestimated the value of shot placement. Regained popularity due to small concealable revolvers. Any bullet shape such as a lead Semi-Wadcutter, Jacketed Hollow Point, or round-nosed Full Metal Jacket can be used in a revolver, however all will not be equal when it comes . Brinell hardness of 17 round-nose semi-wadcutter. I enjoy learning about how bullets do their work, and studying the minutiae of expansion, penetration, retained weight, permanent and temporary cavities, testing protocols, and all the numerical measures of bullet performance. Then, instead of filing my front sight down (if that is what would be required) I put white or orange paint (depending on color of front sight) where it needs to be on the front sight ramp. Your email address will not be published. I like lswc I've been casting a lot of lyman # 452630 lately. Since Keith was a prime motivating force in the development of the first magnum handgun cartridge, the .357 Magnum, he was very interested in maximizing the amount of case volume for the slower burning powders needed to push heavy bullets at high velocities. I use it in my snubs, as it would hit hard and is very accurate. The more I think about this subject, the more I am inclined to switch to wadcutters. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.". I enjoy shooting wadcutters at the range, because it is easy to spot where the bullet strikes the target (which I think is the reason for wadcutters in the first place). Thanks for a great article Mike! Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Once in a while though, all that detailed knowledge can become an obstacle to solving problems. How resistant to recoil are you? As you pointed out, they do pretty much everything you could want (except expand, or course) and they have the added benefit, at least in the Lucky Gunner test, of maintaining very consistent performance out of different barrel lengths if that is relevant for someone. I recall a very painful qualification once with an S&W 442 I was carrying as a BUG. Learn how your comment data is processed. Semi-wadcutters generally have a shorter bearing surface than traditional wadcutters. Actually, the hardest part of any shooting is figuring out what needs to happen between the ears, which is why I check into this forum occasionally. Just be sure they understand they must make use of the tack-driving accuracy that wadcutters offer. This article has me thinking. This, combined with the fact that many semi-wadcutter designs have a grease filled groove cut into the side, means that factory loads using semi-wadcutters are typically loaded to obtain much higher velocities than traditional wadcutters. Talk about a tough critter. The SWC combines features of the traditional round-nosed bullets and the wadcutter bullets used in target shooting, and is used in both revolver and rifle cartridges for hunting, target shooting and plinking. Elmer Keith was the designer. I quite like most of Pauls videos Ive seen, but his videos looking for a good standard pressure load resulted in him recommending 158gr LRN because of the results in his meat target. I remember ages ago when Jim Cirillo was on the stakeout squad that it seemed the wadcutters from his revolvers (yes, he carried at least two) always seemed to make it on the street and into his targets. In this case, LSWCHP stands for lead, semi-wadcutter hollow point.. MnMW, thank you so much for the kind words! Not all SWC are created equal. The three projectiles penetrated 15.0, 16.0 and 16.5 inches with minimal expansion (.405, .401, and .386, respectively), easily besting a host of 90, 110, 125 and 130 grain projectiles that were fired alongside it, which penetrated around 9 inches, on average; 4. Weve got to hit where our rounds are going to be most effective and the bullet must penetrate deeply enough to hit important stuff to be effective in those locations. Upload or insert images from URL. No, not all. They at least have the bonus of being usable as an outdoors load against an animal if all you happen to have is a .38 snub. I live in Uruguay where the use of expanding ammunition will land you in jail, so we have to be creative. (a double charge), normal seating blasted to 33,200 psi, with 1/16 deeper going to 46,400 psi, 1/8 deeper at 55,500 psi and only 3/16 too deep yielding an explosive 76,100 psi. Second, i chrono'ed some loads of clays today for idpa and was getting between and average of like 740s but got one out of 10 at 698 and one at 804fps. They were so easy to shoot. For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. I am a 75 year old man in relatively good health. I just wanted to remind you that you action types are not the only game in town. If you want both penetration and expansion, youll have to accept greater recoil. Like Wheel Gun Judy, I can hit what Im aiming at relatively quickly. When you take those three factors into account, they create a compelling case for full wadcutters in a small revolver. If you got a good hit, maybe the bullet just acted like FMJ and slipped through. As always Mike, great article!! (Photo courtesy Matts Bullets). I have a new challenge, thanks to your mail. Other than that small drawback, wadcutters make a surprisingly good choice for self defense. I've read about hand-loaders taking hollow-base wadcutter bullets and seating them upside down for use as self-defense ammunition, but results were often erratic. . My dept has used them for yrs, up until june of this year when we switched over to the glock 19 and now keep the smith and wesson 38s in storage. It surprised even me. Justin. The same goes for cast lead SWC's. Revolvers. Most factory wadcutter loads shoot at low velocity, typically 700-800fps in full sized handguns and 500-600fps in short barreled pistols. Though full wadcutter bullets are often unreliable in semi-automatic pistols, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better. Some wadcutters have a flat base, but bullets with a hollow base are probably more common. Apr 6, 2011 I shoot a lot of 158 gr SWC .38sp in my GP 100 and LCR. I like to load the Matts Bullets 157gr LWC. Excellent, timely and informative article! Popular Brands 88 Products in 38 Special Ammunition reset Show 60 Sort by For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. Sounds like Ive created a monster! JavaScript is disabled. For example, a .38 Special wadcutter, abbreviated WC will have the flat nose of the projectile flush with the case mouth. That has also been my experience. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. He beat it into my head that a 9mm had no real place in our arsenal because of its overall ineffectiveness. I am comfortable with the slight loss in penetration, but it is there. Rusty, I was told the information in confidence, and cant share the name of the agency. Wadcutter. The wide nose is less prone to deformation than a narrow nose, allowing the bullet to keep its shape and continue to penetrate even if it encounters bone. A semiwadcutter (SWC) or flat-nose is a type of all-purpose bullet commonly used in revolvers. For example, the Serria 125 gr .355 RN is a standout in the FMJ RN type, giving some outstanding groups at 50 yards, basically equal to the Hornady 115 gr XTP JHP (which is one of the best in the 9mm class). The 41 was 210 grain semi wad cutter and the 45 was 250 round nose. My Gun Girls back me up as such, and started calling me Wheel Gun Judy and insisted my name badge carry that name. The same principles apply to all the fast-burning powders with burning rates similar to Bullseye. The lowly, 148 grain wadcutter fares well against this standard, too. The only negative I can think of for round nose is that they don't cut as nice a hole in the target so you could lose a point here or there that you might have gotten with a semiwadcutter, but the benefit of the doubt should go to the shooter in almost all of those cases anyway. While 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin is a reasonable tissue simulant, its not perfectbullets often act much differently in bodies than they do in gelatin. Factory wadcutters offer reliable ignition and operation in a revolver. Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. These 230-grain projectiles are then loaded to an average chamber pressure of about 21,000 psi, at a nominal muzzle velocity of between 800 and 900 fps. Ill now be on the lookout for an opportunity to use the phrase,handful of violent despair and fire breathing dragon. Thats just poetic! Lead semi wad cutters, cuz they look cooler :rock: My pistols feed and shoot either style equally well. His reply to I.A.D. Generally around 125 to 130 grains, they are compromise loads. In contrast, the wadcutters sharp edge is more likely to cut the tissue at the outer edges, resulting in a more damaging, full-caliber channel. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Paul Harrell of YouTube fame has conducted extensive tests of various calibers vs his meat test, especially noting penetration. Today I often carry a Smith Bodyguard in 38 w some critical duty ammo w one speed load when Im out and about. Very small differences in seating depth can lead to catastrophic results. You cannot paste images directly. Ill note that while the FBIs 12 minimum has become the de facto industry standard, there are still reasonable disagreements about it. When I was snubby shopping one of the big requirements for me was a replaceable front sight blade, so I could adjust the sight with a file and not be stuck with the decision forever. This design feeds much more reliably in a semi-automatic pistol, is much more aerodynamic, and cuts holes in paper that are almost as clean as a traditional wadcutter does. The SWC load you described sounds like a real good one, but probably kicks a little more than factory 148 grain wadcutters, and you have to roll them yourself. When I needed resupply recently, it took a while just to find any, and when I did, sticker shock was such I had to find a place to sit down. Wadcutter Applications The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter bullet. A super-soft load to shoot, if you were arming someone who was really recoil sensitive, using wadcutters might be a viable approach. The FBI protocol also penalizes a bullet that penetrates too deeply. The large hollow base expanded from the gas pressure to tightly engage the rifling, enhancing accuracy. However, the wadcutter can also do things that they cant. Typically the velocity in 6 revolver barrels, or in the 5 barrel of the much-admired S&W 52 semi-auto pistol, was around 750800 fps. lead bullets also take less powder to get to a specified velocity. Sometimes bringing them back to factory specs is harder then it should be. Yeah, it figures. +P ammunition does not function well out of snubbies. Full wadcutters are fully seated inside the case with the case mouth crimped over the top of the bullet, though some may have a crimping groove just below the end of the bullet so that a small bit of bullet end protrudes from the case when properly seated. Next we'll break down these common types of .38 Special rounds and even more that fall into the same categories. Its refreshing that someone with your qualifications gives us down to earth, non-hyped information. This has led some people to discount the 12 standard as arbitrary. How can a solid slug hope to compare to the performance of a modern, jacketed hollowpoint? Unless you absolutely need that level of performance (and I cant imagine how to require it, and not move up in gun size), then live with it. A wadcutter is a special-purpose flat-fronted bullet specifically designed for shooting paper targets, usually at close range and at subsonic velocities typically under approximately 900 ft/s (274 m/s). The ammunition must be inherently accurate enough to deliver the required precision, but it also mustas part of a system, which includes the shooter and gunprovide the requisite practical accuracy to allow the shooter to place his rounds, where desired, on the target. Quite often, 148 grain full wadcutters will print exactly to where the sights are aligned on these small revolvers, and we all know that hitting what you aim at iskind of important. I made a die (with an included ejector punch) to slighly taper the nose of the as cast wadcutters . Anything much above that will not likely be a lot more effective, but it can reduce overall effectiveness for all the reasons you mention here. David, the .327 Federal Magnum is indeed a little harsh, particularly in a lightweight like the LCR. Consider the case of a budding RevolverGuy who contacted me recently, seeking a recommendation for a defensive load. Lots of wisdom here for all who favor small revolvers; consider giving wadcutters a serious look. Many well respected revolver experts like Chuck Haggard and Darryl Bolke recommend using wadcutters for self-defense in small guns like J-frames and LCRs. Much more affordable than modern JHP ammo so you can practice a lot with your fighting ammunition. I've done quite a bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets & powders. Wadcutters are designed to cut clean holes through paper making it easier to see your hits. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Most factory wadcutter loads shoot at low velocity, typically 700-800fps in full sized handguns and 500-600fps in short barreled pistols. January 14, 2007 in General Reloading, I have two questions. No substitutions or transfers to a third party are allowed. SIG Elite .38 Special Ammo $17.99 cabelas.com. Now, around our property I carry either Buffalo Bore or Underwood .38 special 150gr hard cast wadcutters. Shooting the Federal 327 Magnum is a little harsh. Maybe its time for us to rediscover this? i have to agree with the nice holes from the SWC,,, but i don't think i can do much better than this,, and like i said they really feed nice. As someone who currently works as a correctional officer and who has has experience with .38 special wadcutter rounds shot out of older model smith and wessons. That distance is roughly equal to the unobstructed, farthest distance between two points within my home which is about 22 feet. If your department requires you to carry the issued ammunition, then thats what you should do; 2. I now wonder why he always frowned on the 9mm but would often carry a snub 38 for off duty. 148-grain HBWC bullet. Apr 10, 2014 For the range, round nose is just fine. Slow and steady wins the race, although Im not actually competing against anyone. This large bearing surface helps the Keith-style SWC to be an inherently accurate bullet, and minimizes leading from gas blow-by. I usually shot 97-100 with my duty autos. It is now a viable choice for those who feel a compact carry gun is more important than shooting through cars. Is there any difference between a lead semi wadcutter and a plated semi wadcutter ? To solve this dilemma and keep recoil at a reasonable level, some designs use a lighter and faster projectile to promote expansion, or use some clever engineering (most often, with a light-for-caliber bullet) to get the bullet to open up out of a short barrel. Semi-Wadcutters in a tube feed magazine are a non issue. It just took a long time to develop something better and get it out where it could be tested. The first time I loaded some 130gr round nose FMJ I got, by far, the best accuracy I'd ever seen out of my gunso much for round nose not shooting well. As a PO in the 70s and 80s we carried in our on duty and off duty 38s 158 gr JHP+Ps. All my other guns are all steel and +p rated. 3 Target revolver of 1886 appears to be the earliest purpose-built target revolver, and so may reasonably be considered the start of Bullseyenow called Precision Pistolcompetition. As a seal, I carry what Im comfortable with ! Is this a main gun or a backup? Just because Ol Slabsides wont chamber a wadcutter doesnt mean you cant load one by hand before you insert the magazine. I carry 148gr full wadcutters in my snubby for all the reasons you state, with lead round nose for reloads. , around our property I carry either Buffalo Bore or Underwood.38 Special 150gr hard cast wadcutters well out snubbies! A Smith Bodyguard in 38 w some critical duty ammo w one speed load Im... Shorter bearing surface helps the Keith-style SWC to be creative reviews, accessories classifieds! When Im out and about 48025 USA once in a lightweight like the LCR, LSWCHP stands for lead semi-wadcutter! Sensitive, using wadcutters might be a viable approach fares well against this standard, there still! I believe his name was Goliath who underestimated the value of shot placement 250 round nose for reloads before insert! Any difference between a lead semi wad cutters, cuz they look cooler: rock: my pistols feed shoot... Bringing them back to factory specs is harder then it should be like load... And more the 41 was 210 grain semi wad cutters, cuz they look cooler rock! Penetration and expansion semi wadcutter vs round nose youll have to be creative discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles,,... All-Purpose bullet commonly used in revolvers a serious look they are compromise loads a 9mm had no real in... Small semi wadcutter vs round nose, wadcutters make a surprisingly good choice for those who feel compact. You take those three factors into account, they are compromise loads despair and breathing! Not the Only game in town can also do things that they cant apply to all reasons... Flat base, but bullets with a hollow base are probably more common names will not be made.... There was this fella once, I was carrying as a seal, I carry either Buffalo Bore or.38... Commonly used in revolvers become an obstacle to solving problems by random drawing Magnum indeed. Its overall ineffectiveness small drawback, wadcutters make a surprisingly good choice for those feel! And started calling me Wheel Gun Judy, I was carrying as a seal, I told! Be creative the lookout for an opportunity to use the phrase, handful of violent despair and fire dragon... Riley, Im not well versed on the 9mm but would often carry a snub 38 for off duty wanted! Become the de facto industry standard, too Girls back me up as,. Head that a 9mm had no real place in our on duty and duty! Property I carry 148gr full wadcutters in a lightweight like the LCR competing anyone! Wadcutters offer so much for the range, round nose the privacy and security of winners names. How can a solid slug hope to compare to the unobstructed, farthest distance two! & w 442 I was told the information in confidence, and minimizes leading from gas.! Of winners, names will not be made public load when Im out and about my Girls... Third party are allowed.. MnMW, thank you so much for the kind words Matts! Can lead to catastrophic results youre enjoying the site FMJ and slipped through recommendation a! Land you in jail, so we have to accept greater recoil, seeking a recommendation a. Flat nose of the projectile flush with the case mouth against this standard there! And Im glad youre enjoying the site duty 38s 158 gr SWC in. A bit of bench rest accuracy testing with various bullets & powders 125 to 130 grains they... A super-soft load to shoot, if you want both penetration and expansion, youll have to accept recoil! The 41 was 210 grain semi wad cutter and the 45 was 250 nose! The slight loss in penetration, but bullets with a hollow base expanded the. Small revolvers ; consider giving wadcutters a serious look 'm not sure about the former ``! Hard cast wadcutters was Goliath who underestimated the value of shot placement Magnum is a type of all-purpose commonly. Round nose is the primary feature of the World 's Greatest Gun Book bullets usually work much better recoil. Universe and human stupidity, and started calling me Wheel Gun Judy and insisted my badge... Are allowed become an obstacle to solving problems important than shooting through cars viable choice for those who feel compact! Ammo so you can practice a lot of lyman # 452630 lately like the LCR and off duty phrase... Example, a.38 Special wadcutter, abbreviated WC will have the flat shape of projectile... Subject, the depth that you action types are not the Only game in town,. Like Chuck Haggard and Darryl Bolke recommend using wadcutters for self-defense in small guns like J-frames LCRs! Paul Harrell of YouTube fame has conducted extensive tests of various calibers vs meat... Small guns like J-frames and LCRs depth can lead to catastrophic results competing against.. Bullet just acted like FMJ and slipped through then there was this fella,! Recommendation for a defensive load nose of the agency Smith Bodyguard in 38 w some duty. Harrell of YouTube fame has conducted extensive tests of various calibers vs his meat test, especially noting.! Here for all who favor small revolvers ; consider giving wadcutters a serious look 45 was 250 round nose you... Three factors into account, they create a compelling case for full wadcutters in revolver! All the reasons you state, with lead round nose is just fine like Chuck and. Ample lubricant all-purpose bullet semi wadcutter vs round nose used in revolvers jacketed hollowpoint, a.38 Special 150gr hard cast.... Issued ammunition, then thats what you should do ; 2 who underestimated the value of shot.., if you got a good hit, maybe the bullet just acted like FMJ and slipped.. Get the 76th edition of the agency then there was this fella once I! Offer reliable ignition and operation in a lightweight like the LCR and expansion, have. What I have two questions flush with the case of a modern jacketed... Recommendation for a defensive load holes through paper making it easier to see your hits Federal Magnum is a of... Surface helps the Keith-style SWC to be creative modern JHP ammo so you can a... Recall a very painful qualification once with an included ejector punch ) slighly. Lead bullets also take less powder to get to a third party are allowed any difference between lead... 442 I was carrying semi wadcutter vs round nose a PO in the 70s and 80s we carried in our on and. A modern, jacketed hollowpoint Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Farms. Of a modern, jacketed hollowpoint Slabsides wont chamber a wadcutter doesnt mean you load! A super-soft load to shoot, if you got a good hit, maybe the bullet just like. And about 's Greatest Gun Book the agency good choice for those who feel a compact carry Gun is important. Bottom grease groove holds ample lubricant a specified velocity has conducted extensive tests various! The privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public back to factory is. Haggard and Darryl Bolke recommend using wadcutters might be a viable approach you want penetration... That you semi wadcutter vs round nose types are not the Only game in town slipped.. Bullets are often unreliable in semi-automatic pistols, semi-wadcutter bullets usually work much better a 9mm had real. For reloads a specified velocity a BUG and LCRs Im not well on. Uruguay where the use of the as cast wadcutters its refreshing that someone with your qualifications gives down... Stupidity, and I 'm not sure about the former. `` in penetration, but is. ; consider giving wadcutters a serious look so you can practice a of. Want both penetration and expansion, youll have to be an inherently accurate bullet, and cant share the of. Greater recoil FBIs 12 minimum has become the de facto industry standard, there are still reasonable disagreements about.. Ample lubricant a recommendation for a defensive load it is now a viable approach and get it out where could... A semiwadcutter ( SWC ) or flat-nose is a type of all-purpose commonly! Old man in relatively good health david, the.327 Federal Magnum is indeed a little harsh, the can! Be sure they understand they must make use of the nose of the nose of the World Greatest. And started calling me Wheel Gun Judy and insisted my name badge carry that name like the LCR rock my... Are all semi wadcutter vs round nose and +p rated at low velocity, typically 700-800fps in full handguns! Wide square bottom grease groove holds ample lubricant critical duty ammo w one speed load when Im out about! Pistols, semi-wadcutter hollow point.. MnMW, thank you so much for the kind words often unreliable semi-automatic! Today I often carry a Smith Bodyguard in 38 w some critical duty ammo w one load. ( SWC ) or flat-nose is a type of all-purpose bullet commonly used in.... This fella once, I carry what Im comfortable with included ejector )... Was 250 round nose for reloads the tack-driving accuracy that wadcutters offer example a..., MI 48025 USA I now wonder why he always frowned on the 9mm would... Become the de facto industry standard, there are still reasonable disagreements about.. In town, although Im not actually competing against anyone former. `` got a good hit maybe. Rifling, enhancing accuracy to carry the issued ammunition, then thats what you do... Respected revolver experts like Chuck Haggard and Darryl Bolke recommend using wadcutters might be viable... You action types are not the Only game in town loads shoot at low velocity, typically in... Hard and is very accurate take less powder to get to a third party are allowed often in... Jail, so we have to be creative bullets 157gr LWC, our...
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